Dan is a graduate of UCLA and UVA law school, chair of Business Law group at Mayo Clinic and member of Mayo Clinic's brand management team. Practice in the areas of business law, copyright, trademark, telemedicine, privacy and internet. Biggest claim to fame is legal counsel for Mayo Clinic's Social Media efforts headed by @Leeaase
-@healthblawg is David Harlow
David’s legal and consulting practice includes advising health care providers of all shapes and sizes on a variety of business and regulatory issues, including HIPAA compliance, patient communications and more. Please contact him if you require such services.
Web http://www.harlowgroup.net
Blog http://healthblawg.typepad.com
The Disclaimers
*No legal advice will be offered during this chat event*
"No legal advice" means the attorneys will not address specific use cases (e.g. "at my hospital, we have this social media problem, what is your advice")
The attorneys will engage on general issues, concerns and legal topics related to the use of social media in healthcare
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healthblawg Biggest areas of concern ppl have re healthcare SoMe is HIPAA and privacy law. Right area to be concerned abt. #hcsm healthblawg Fed and state healthcare privacy laws interact and overlap; EU & other int'l law to think abt given global reach of www #hcsm healthblawg Under HIPAA, 'covered entity' can't release PHI to 3rd party w/o pt consent. #hcsm healthblawg Providers get consent up front by having pts sign notice of privacy practices (NPP); need to articulate planned use for PHI in NPP #hcsm healthblawg State law can be stricter than HIPAA (recent NV and MA general privacy laws, focused on protection against ID theft) #hcsm healthblawg Another area of concern: mandated reporting. St law often make providers mandated reporters of things like gunsht wnds, domestc violnc #hcsm healthblawg I mention mandated reporting laws as example of how receiving info via SoMe may trigger obligations beyond obligs to pt #hcsm healthblawg Mass. law, for example, applies to doc who is attending or treating pt w GSW http://bit.ly/qbHZz What does attending or treating mean? #hcsm healthblawg When docs offer medical advice via tweets or other SoMe I'd say they are 'treating' #hcsm healthblawg #hcsm But let's step back a mopment... IMHO, this is all a bit academic right now. The @susannahfox Pew/CHCF rpt, 'The Social LIfe of Health Information' released last week says only 6% of people want health info via SoMe http://bit.ly/lw72h Now, @edbennett says that will change, and I agree - change will come, and so we have the opportunity to plan, lay groundwork for these interactions, develop rules of the road for the future: like rewriting NPPs with SoMe in mind, for example.... Read More: http://is.gd/123pv
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danielg280 Gd evning. Jst a remndr that I’m a civilian tonight. My opnions r my own, not my employer's. Also, this is gen'l info, not legal advc #hcsm danielg280 Laws to be aware of: State licensure laws for docs and nurses: Center for telehealth and ehealth law: http://tinyurl.com/mqwsfn #hcsm danielg280 Copyright law and fair use: Stanford Libraries C page: http://tinyurl.com/374b4 Disney C parody http://tinyurl.com/2mvjg2 #hcsm danielg280 Defamation: Electronic Frontier Foundation Blogger’s legal guide: http://tinyurl.com/ah8rr9 #hcsm danielg280 Trademark law: INTA trademark basics: http://tinyurl.com/bakgxb #hcsm danielg280 Most medical practice acts are broad and cover any attempts to heal or diagnose, whatever the means #hcsm danielg280 T 3.1, Generally this is fine, so long as its voluntary and the patient signs a hipaa compiant auth #hcsm danielg280 Key is to make sure patient really understands what they're getting into. Don't want to have them surprised they're on network tv #hcsm danielg280 Generally claims of "best" are puffing, and ok to say without support. #hcsm danielg280 May not need an auth if only allowing a forum for them to do it. May need an auth of directly soliciting #hcsm
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stephaniethum @healthblawg Does that mean language in NPP practices documents need to change to include SM references as a "planned" use? #hcsm dr_bob @healthblawg yes have to be careful about creating an online doctor-patient relationship #hcsm drval @healthblawg But what constitutes medical advice? A direct suggestion to a specific person to change mgmt or DO something? #hcsm ctsinclair @healthblawg What is the difference between medical advice and education about medical topics? Are there cases debating this? #hcsm ShrinkRapRoy "advice"...it's all in what you say & how you say it. Need to speak in generalities and veer away from specific case.
#hcsm craigstoltz "Advice" easy to spot/disclaim in "long" form online media. In a Tweet, hard to draw line between [actionable] advice & benign info #hcsm healthblawg @drval Sounds about right; so need to est MD-pt rel 1st IRL #hcsm dr_bob @ctsinclair education is general, treatment is specific to the patient #hcsm ctsinclair @dr_bob Yes but any education may be considered specific from the pt point of view and therefore become advice healthblawg @stephaniethum Yes I think NPP's need to be updated to reflect SOMe use #hcsm
T1.1 Fact or Myth: Patients can disclose PHI, evaluate docs, payers, providers anywhere/anytime using social media. Providers not in control.
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candacee116 Everyone owns their own story. If they wish to share on a soc/med site-they are giving permission
#hcsm ctsinclair T1.1 I vote Fact. RE: Patients can disclose PHI, evaluate docs, payers, providers anywhere/anytime using social media. #hcsm healthblawg T1.1 Pt can disclose own info; if provider sponsored forum important to have notice re lack of privacy #hcsm patrickmann How can a doc truly a patient is who they say they are over SM? #hcsm chrisboyer Re: T1 - i would like to agree with @ctsinclair - I would like for this to be ffact. #hcsm danielg280 1.1 Fact Patient controls own PHI and can disclose.Can also say what they want re docs, subj to limits of libel Must be opinion or tru #hcsm dr_bob @patrickmann on SM nobody knows if you're a dog #hcsm ahier anyone have real-life examples of pt testimonials on hospital blogs? #hcsm StevenBarley @irb123 For example: http://bit.ly/MRd89
#hcsm chrisboyer @MarksPhone I believe a patient can comment wherever they want, whenever they want on SM. That's they're right. #hcsm
T1.2 Fact or Myth: Providers should never follow, friend or reply to patients via social media, HIPAA absolutely forbids this.
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ShrinkRapRoy RT @patrickmann How can a doc truly a patient is who they say they are over SM? [good point]
#hcsm danielg280 Spoofing is a concern on SM, which is why it's generally not a good idea for true treatment relationship without a way to validate id #hcsm nickdawsonhc do patients have an expectation that they will be treated via SM? #hcsm candacee116 Ithink you should not create a relationship separate from provider/patient on soc media such as FB or MS but reply on email to patient #hcsm healthblawg T1.2 Best practice: advance consent; online or paper, should be part of std HIPAA NPP (notice of privacy practices) #hcsm danielg280 Close to fact: Prvdr mst be mindful of pvcy obligations and HIPAA in all interactions. Evn Disclosing that someone is a pt is a prob #hcsm nickdawsonhc I think most PTs understand that SM is like a cocktail party. Ask general questions, not seeking treatment. seems a moot point to me #hcsm candacee116 If they are in rural area, this may be only means of health info communication-they may need Dr to friend them to establish connection #hcsm macobgyn How is a patient asking me questions after hours via SM any different than the pt calling me through the office paging system?
#hcsm ekivemark #hcsm Seems like we need an "I opt out of HIPAA" just like we have a "Do Not Call" Registry
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danielg280 t1.3 true No employee "rights" to do this. Employers can limit or allow as they see fit. dsnt mean it's a good idea #hcsm candacee116 Employees deserve breaks can't they go on then? #hcsm macobgyn RT @GraftFinder: I think we should start by referring to SM as "Communication" not "media" it portrays the wrong picture. #hcsm healthblawg T1.3 Agree w Dan. However: employee morale issue, and need to enlist employees as SoMe ambassadors now or later so why piss them off? #hcsm ekivemark #hcsm T1.3 Employee personal use - If employers want to go there then they should accept not being able to contact off duty employees Aurora_Health @healthblawg employees as ambassadors has great value if directed w/in appr. guidelines #hcsm ShrinkRapRoy T1.3 Agree, no RIGHT to use SM for personal use. But are what we doing here "personal" or "work-related"? Both? #hcsm craigstoltz Re: Employee use of SM: Employers originally banned telephones for same reason, that they would kill productivity. Ditto web. Now SM. #hcsm bacigalupe @shrinkraproy @HealthSocMed are you making a distinction between exempt and non-exempt employees? Big difference #hcsm ShrinkRapRoy @bacigalupe Great point! As an exempt employee, when am I ever really "off"?
#hcsm
T1.5 Fact or Myth: Social media content published by employees on work or personal accounts is automatically the property of the employer
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danielg280 Myth mostly but emplyers own stuff created "w/in the scope of emplymnt" #hcsm patrickmann Big concern for corps is info leaking out through SM. Company is liable for employee actions. #hcsm danielg280 thus, If it's your job to do it, could be owned by employer, even if personal acct or equipment. #hcsm healthblawg T1.5 Classic work for hire rule; not unique to SoMe - Matter for contractual negotiation #hcsm
2. Back to Law School Basics
T2.1 Are social media tools like Twitter, FcBk, YTb redefining what constitutes intellectual property?
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ekivemark #hcsm Put the patient at the center -They choose/own/control/delegate - seems like it simplifies a lot of complexities in HC. danielg280 t2.1 Prob not. File sharing was bigr challenge and hasnt caused sea change yet #hcsm ctsinclair T2.1 Oh yes. Check out some legal blogs for great posts on "Who owns your LinkedIn contacts?"
#hcsm crgonzalez T2.1>> That's where I think your Terms of Use can help guide employees #hcsm healthblawg T2.1 Old rules like "fair use" might not seem as fair when the "use" is so instant and widely disseminated; law always plays catch-up #hcsm nickdawsonhc Great point--> @sarahzaenger T1.5 Myth. no one can 'own' social media-- it's just out there #hcsm
T2.2 Can you copyright a "Tweet" or a "Wall Post" in Facebook? - http://www.canyoucopyrightatweet.com/
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danielg280 t2.2 Prob too short to be copyrightable, plus (don't shoot me) not enough creativity per copyright law. #hcsm jensmccabe @HealthSocMed #hcsm - can't copyright tweet yet. For IP, suggest this method: 1. creative commons info in profile, blog, facebook. 2. record healthblawg #hcsm T2.2 Twitter TOS says Twitter asserts no claim of copyright, belongs to ac... Read More: http://is.gd/124jz danielg280 The rare tweet that's pure creativity could be (eg haiku), most are not. Good article: http://www.canyoucopyrightatweet.com/ #hcsm HealthSocMed @healthblawg and @danielg280 - Can I put a "c" with a circle next to my Tweets or Wall Posts? #hcsm (TS) consultdoc RT@chrisboyer @drval This type of conversation would work great in Google Wave...#hcsm #hcsm crgonzalez T2.2 Under the Commons, and even under Twitter's rules, a tweet belongs to the owner and can be RT'd w/ author's consent #hcsm danielg280 @HealthSocMed You can put the circle C, but it won't affect whether you actually have a copyright #hcsm danielg280 Actually, you can't own ideas unless it's patentable (which is a very high standard) copr. protects only creative xpression, not ideas #hcsm
3. Best Practices
T3.1 What are the issues with *encouraging* or soliciting patient testimonials on a hospital branded social media account?
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ctsinclair T#: Had potential client worried about employees or patients saying" Dr. Smith is the BEST doctor!" #hcsm danielg280 T 3.1, Generally this is fine, so long as its voluntary and the patient signs a hipaa compiant auth #hcsm danielg280 Key is to make sure patient really understands what they're getting into. Don't want to have them surprised they're on network tv #hcsm chrisboyer Re T3: why would HC providers attempt to encourage patients to participate on SM accounts? That's against what SM is all about! #hcsm danielg280 Generally claims of "best" are puffing, and ok to say without support. #hcsm healthblawg 3.1 Has to be voluntary, authzn needed too #hcsm stephaniethum @danielg280 So voluntary, unsolicited online pt testimonials are ok, but only if the person offering the testimonial signed a release? #hcsm danielg280 May not need an auth if only allowing a forum for them to do it. May need an auth of directly soliciting #hcsm EdBennett So it's OK if patient shares happy story on any other blog, but if they post to the hosiptal blog they need a signed release? #hcsm
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consultdoc I have officially reached information saturation. I will enjoy reading the summary later. #hcsm EdBennett @jensmccabe "control" social media? That just makes me laugh. Only the old and clueless think that way. #hcsm healthblawg #hcsm T3.2 Clinical communications not OK unless between clinician and establish... Read More: http://is.gd/124F6 danielg280 t3.2 Docs and nurses generally can't practice med across state lines. Need to be esp. careful to not cross into pract med. #hcsm coachkiki @HealthSocMed Perhaps personal accounts vs. work accounts - many gov. employees tweeting have "this is not work" or something on acct. #hcsm ahier RT @chukwumaonyeije: @drval @Dr_Bob #hcsm Yes. This would be great on BlogTalkRadio @2healthguru craigstoltz RT @HITshrink: Hmm, I haven't seen any ads: "Has this happened to you? Ur doc twittered ur surgery w/o consent?" 1-800-LAWYERS. #hcsm donshep @danielg280 That an interesting one T3.2 if a provider in MA recommends something to a "follower" in CA is that prohibited #hcsm crgonzalez T3.2 There's the public expectation that what a doctor says can be construde as a medical opinion; not so with non-doc employee #hcsm
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healthblawg #hcsm T3.3 To me, less legal, more intestinal fortitude issue. In this case (ne... Read More: http://is.gd/124U2 HealthSocMed @danielg280 and @healtblawg T3.3 What abt those pesky negative comments in social media toward providers, practitioners, payers? #hcsm (TS) jensmccabe @HealthSocMed Allowing posting of critical comments required for improvement. Abusive/trolling take yer pick of best practice TOS. #hcsm danielg280 @HealthSocMed If from non-patient, can pursue for libel if untrue. If patient, Hipaa ties your hands in public forum #hcsm donshep T3.3 Negative comments are a way of life whether waiting room bitching or on SM not much different #hcsm healthblawg T3.3 http://www.medicaljustice.com/ tries to get pts to agree in advance not to post negative rvws; I think that's inappropriate #hcsm nickdawsonhc @danielg280 hands tied how? Can you respond Bank Of America style "can't answer here, but here is my number, call me... ?
#hcsm donshep T3.3 Lawyers are dealing with the same issue aren't they negative comments in SM?
#hcsm gocatallina What if patients want to videotape their entire hospital experience and put it on YouTube? What are there boundaries? #hcsm ctsinclair @donshep Have been following legal sm circles but not seen much chatter about this. Lawyers have ethics guideline re: marketing self #hcsm
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candacee116 @HealthSocMed this might be the best way to reach some vulnerable groups we would not see/hear from otherwise #hcsm ShrinkRapRoy My hosp is opening OB in Fall. An encouraging them to open up Tw/FB/Flickr. Those new moms wont like no access. #hcsm jensmccabe There are Twitter conventions we can try to 'activate' groups without personal identifiers. #getupandmove. #don'tsmoke #hcsm healthblawg #hcsm T3.4-1 HIV is a whole other story. Many/most states have pt privacy laws ... Read More: http://is.gd/12594 sarahskiba #hcsm What protects patients from hackers or stalkers posing as their health care professionals? nickdawsonhc @shrinkraproy OB is our first/most interested service line as well #hcsm donshep T3.4 I know the hospital I volenteer at is look to social media to keep in touch with gastric bypass/band patients
#hcsm MarksPhone @HealthSocMed yes target specific demographic groups with objectives and strategies and outcomes. Use SM as one tactic #hcsm
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healthblawg T3.5 HIPAA covers PHI. Social media should not include PHI except in ltd circumstances (w consent) #hcsm macobgyn @shrinkraproy For the OB people Check out Macarthur OBGYN on Facebook and see what we are doing. #hcsm leonpalmer Think anyone else would watch if we turned this tweetchat feed into a YouTube video? #hcsm macobgyn @ShrinkRapRoy Here is our practices FB page #hcsm http://bit.ly/TGJ7y
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jensmccabe @HealthSocMed re: hospital setting record straight if patient account 'grossly inaccurate' exhibit A: Glenn Beck (bleck). No, counter. #hcsm HealthSocMed @danielg280 and @healthblawg T 3.6 - pt tweets about a bill, "too much", "not right", "outrageous" #hcsm (TS) jensmccabe Slander, libel will somehow make their way into our precedents for rating/ranting using social media sites and tools methinks. #hcsm stephaniethum @HealthSocMed T3.6.2 Interesting q b/c even if they *could* set the record straight, should they, publicly, for face-saving reasons? #hcsm danielg280 Provider can't respond publicly unless patient auths in writing. response almost always will entail the disclosure of PHI #hcsm ahier #hcsm @HealthSocMed pts tweeting about bill needs to be immediately personally responded to (just like other business)
T3.7 A 3rd party posts via Twitter, Facebook, MySpace: “My grandmother has been waiting in the ER for hours,
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healthblawg T3.6.2 Either without PHI, or w PHI if consent is given; can't assume/imply consent & w unhappy camper, not likely, so keep it generic #hcsm nickdawsonhc We've addressed several complaints in comments in local paper's site. (was a top google hit for me). Asked concerned pts to call me #hcsm Miz_Marie 50-60 people on chat- way too many comments to follow in one sitting but great topic/posts on Health care and Social Media #hcsm candacee116 I say respond immediately to someone upset with you and take control to make it right-show you are aware and willing to fix problems #hcsm ctsinclair RE T3.7 - if a family member intiated and named the provider,, the provider/org should be able to communicate back without ID of pt #hcsm HITshrink @danielg280 "Provider can't respond publicly" [well, they could make a general comment about how they manage xyz situations. #hcsm mneedham @HealthSocMed re: T3.7 “... waiting in the ER for hours... ” :: happens to us regularly - working on response protocol now. #hcsm healthblawg #hcsm 3.7.1 1. Send a human being to the ER empowered to cut red tape and post a... Read More: http://is.gd/125yq danielg280 @HITshrink AGreed. That's the one way to do it. Still have to be careful not to disclose something patient specific #hcsm ekivemark @HealthSocMed #hcsm T3.6.2 This prob exists in many other industries. Don't get in a cat fight. Be reasonable. undetones will come through
T3.8 A patient initiates a private email or public social media communication to a doctor/provider that is not solicited and contains PHI. T3.8-1 What's the best way to handle the private email or the public social media conversation?
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mneedham @HealthSocMed re: T3.7 “... waiting in the ER for hours... ” :: response will involve personal delivery of flowers - not social media #hcsm macobgyn @HealthSocMed T3.8-1 Great question. Should the provider not respond? #hcsm ctsinclair RT @donshep A good rule is to use your profile URL to have a FAQ about how you will interact on twitter. "Good tip" #hcsm GraftFinder Explain the "openness" of the comm plateform in PLAIN language to the patients and have them sign that they understand risk/reward #hcsm healthblawg T3.8 Email and other elec comm OK w est pts; "cold call" needs friendly but firm response instructing pt on how to est that rel #hcsm chrisboyer Wish I could spend more time on #hcsm, but will have to check back on the transcript later. Will blog my thoughts: http://bit.ly/T7rfK patrickmann T3.8 I have always recommended our users remove any unwanted PHI information when replying to a patient via email. #hcsm GraftFinder I would much rather talk to a Dr by email personally, unless I was very sick. #hcsm danielg280 HIPAA actually does not mandate encrypted email. Doc can use regular email to correspond with patient and not violate law #hcsm danielg280 Need to think thru whether it's a good idea: will email be attended if pt emails time sensitive, will info get into med record, etc #hcsm
Wrap Up
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HITshrink @StevenBarley So right ... this is a convo that must be reread later to digest, reflect. [will add to http://tr.im/ouuF #hcsm HealthSocMed Big thanks to David Harlow and Daniel Goldman for their time tonight at #hcsm. Virtual applause/cheering! (TS) HealthSocMed And many thx to all who participated in this experimental format. Obviously, lots of lessons learned. Thanks for your patience. #hcsm (TS) danielg280 Thanks everyone for the lively chat. Lots of fun, tho what little hair I have is standing on end and I'm sweating. . . #hcsm HITshrink @ekivemark Coveritlive used on my blog if you want some recap of tinight. http://bit.ly/Y101M [VERY COOL!] #hcsm danamlewis if you have comments, suggestions, and/or ideas for a future #hcsm, please feel free to DM @danamlewis @healthsocmed or @tstitt healthblawg @patrickmann HIPAA and Son of HIPAA -- some of the questions raised by ARRA changes to law http://tinyurl.com/nvpd5j #hcsm healthblawg Thank you all - and I look forward to continuing the conversation here, there and everywhere #hcsm otoole4info Look for transcript in the next 24 hrs I'll Tweet when it's complete! #hcsm danamlewis wonderful volunteer @otoole4info is compiling a transcript, & i believe @klxmedia is providing some overviews (in addition to others) #hcsm
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